View source for ArenaNet:Skill feedback/PvE/Ursan Blessing/Archive 1

{{ArenaNet namespace notice|skill feedback}}
== Beetlejuice's Issue -- 11:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC) ==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#Beetlejuice's Discussion|Discussion]]
; Issue
: This skill is in dire need of a nerf since it dominates all kinds of high end pve. It is fast to assemble, easy to play and runs are always fast because you really can not mess up a lot. This makes it much more profitable to run than even the best balanced groups. With more and more rank10 norn/rank8 lb guys coming into play this will even get worse if at all possible.
; Suggestion
: Nerf this skill to a point where hard mode DoA runs with max rank are not possible anymore. Make this an option for fast and easy normal mode runs and restrict the more profitable hard mode for people running more than 3 skills.
: I would suggest reducing hp gain to 100 at max rank and let ursan strike scale from 80 to 100 and see how this works out. That also would bring it much more in line with the other blessings.

== 134.130.4.46's Issue -- 11:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC) ==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#134.130.4.46's Discussion|Discussion]]
; Issue
: Ursan teams (only Ursans and Healers) are overpowered because Ursan form has virtually no counters.
; Suggestion
: Allow standard melee counters to affect ursans by turning [[Ursan Strike]] into an '''attack''' skill.

== Lilondra's issue  ==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#134.130.4.46's Discussion|Discussion]]
; Issue
: Ursan teams dominate any pve,why use strategy ? why still make builds for pve ? we got ursan !
; Suggestion
: Lower the damage,Put a certain duration so that is a bit like an avatar of <god>.This way people wont go in with 2 skills on there bar (ress and ursan).

== Teh Uber Pwnzer's Suggestion -- 20:51, 9 March 2008 (UTC)==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#Teh Uber Pwnzer's Discussion|Discussion]]
; Issue
:Ursan teams rule over elite missions making them extremely easy which floods the economy with items only coming from those places.
; Suggestion
:Disable this and the other blessing skills in elite missions, challenge missions, elite areas, etc. This will allow normal mission PuGs to thrive while stemming the flow of elite items.

== My Suggestion --[[User:118.92.12.97|118.92.12.97]] 00:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC) ==

; Issue

:Ursan has changed the way high-end areas, and even standard PvE are played.  Simple.  The skill is to overpowered and runs the risk of unbalancing an already struggling economy even more.

; Suggestion
: A common request: disable this skill, even other blessing in high end areas, and similar places mentioned by Uber Pwnzer, and change the mechanics of Ursans skills.
: Decrease the health bonus, halve it.
: Decrease the armor bonus, halve it.
: Introduce an energy cost to the skills- or just the attack skills Strike and Rage while in Ursan form, I suggest 5 energy per skill.
: Introduce a casting time, similar to the Dervish Avatars - a 1-2 casting time so Ursan has the chance of being interrupted, disable the skill in a similar fashion as the Avatars.
: Change the mechanics of the energy pool so it ignores the character primary; such as Paragon's Leadership, Nerco's Soul Reaping and Elementalist's Energy Storage.  No matter what the user has say 20-30 energy and does not maintain that professions primary effect whilst in Ursan so it only gains energy through being hit or hitting.(probably a difficulty one to introduce but would help.) 

:: [[Ursan_Strike | Strike]]
::Change the mechanics of [[Ursan_Strike | Strike]] so it becomes an attack skill, and remove the mechanic that it ignores armor, or if armor ignoring is kept only hits target once, not twice.  Increase recharge time to 5-6 secs or change its mechanic to an attack skill, so blind etc can affect it.  Even introduce an energy cost.
:: [[Ursan_Rage | Rage]]
:: Increase the casting time, allowing for more time to interrupt.  Introduce an energy cost.  Not sure if you get energy from this skill hitting opponents, if so do not allow energy gain from this skill.
::[[Ursan_Force | Ursan Force]]
:: Change the mechanics so it becomes a stance, increase the recharge time to at least 18-24 seconds.  Decrease the speed and the skills time.


== [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]]'s Issue -- 00:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC) ==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#Gordon Ecker's Discussion|Discussion]]
; Issue
: The armor bonus gives an advantage to heavily armored professions. Warriors can have up to 121 armor vs. elemental damage and 141 armor vs. physical damage before insignia, while casters can only have up to 90 armor with caster weapons before insignia and up to 101 armor with a martial weapon and a shield. Some professions also get a significant advantage from their primary attributes.
; Suggestion
: Make Ursan Blessing override armor (100+) and maximum energy (~50) and set the primary attribute to 0. It could also override maximum health and prevent attacks.

== [[User:SilentStorm|SilentStorm]]'s Issue -- 12:47, 8 April 2008 (UTC) ==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#SilentStorm's Discussion|Discussion]]
; Issue
: Like mentioned several times before this one skill ruined the whole PvE. Not just that DoA takes 3 hours to find a team not running Ursan Shitway no anywhere in the game let it be Prophecies HM Missions, FoW, Underworld or whatever everywhere they are running Ursanway. Its way too overpowered and (as mentioned already) has absolutely no counters. I mean it was always the case that you every Build has its advantages and also its disadvantages and counters. Absolutely NO Build can be used everywhere in the game for every situation - except Ursanway. You cant play a normal build anymore anywhere :((( I mean you sure can do so but wont find a group for several hours if you deny Ursan like I and (luckily) several other players do.
; Suggestion
: Well there are several Options that I see:
*Remove the Skill entirely aswell as all the other Norn Skills.
** I would personally prefer this but its also most unlikely to happen as I know.
*Make this a Non-PvE Only Skill (like in the April Fools Update Notes).
** As it would be able to be used in PvP it would Force you guys to actually BALANCE it. PvP is much more likely to get balanced then the extremly unimportant PvE you know?
*Disable this Skill everywhere except EotN
**I personally dont agree to that but some players seems to think that Ursan is essential in some Areas of EotN. Well ok but it totally imbalances the core campaigns so just disable it in any of the campaigns so it can only be used in EotN expansion. I think this would be a great solution since those who do not own EotN wont have any further shitway to deal with and can play for real again. And those who do own EotN well they can still use this in EotN if they really think its needed.

Well ok now for some more likely solutions:
*Change the Functionality of Ursan to either:
** Elite Enchantment Spell. For {{gr2|20|60}} seconds you gain +{{gr2|50|100}} maximum Health. Your Energy returns to maximum. All Enchantments and Stances upon you are removed. All of your Attributes are set to 0. Bear Attacks replaces your skills. While activating you are easily interrupted. This Enchantment ends if you are knocked down. This skill is disabled for 180 seconds.
** Elite Stance. For {{gr2|20|60}} seconds you gain +{{gr2|50|100}} maximum Health. Your Energy returns to maximum. All Enchantments and Stances upon you are removed. All of your Attributes are set to 0. Bear attacks replaces your skills. While activating you are easily interrupted. This Stance ends if you are knocked down. This skill is disabled for 180 seconds.

In both cases the new stats should be: Energy cost: 20 Activation: 2 Upkeep: 1
*Bring Counters to Ursan
**Make Ursan work as an Enchantment which can be stripped or a Stance which can be ended by skills. Or let it be interuptable, add conditions when it would end (The ever running 0energy is not really a condition which would end it lol), add if knocked down as in above skill description or something similar.

And of course change the skills that you get when in Ursan to not ignore armor and deal WAY less damage.

== [[User:Cause A Little Mayhem|Cause A Little Mayhem]] 04:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)'s Issue ==

[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan_Blessing#Cause_A_Little_Mayhem.27s_Discussion | Discussion]]

; Issue

:Ursan has changed the way high-end areas, HM, challenge missions, missions and even standard PvE are played.  Simply put this skill is far too over powered, prior to Ursan it was near impossible for certain professions to get into certain areas (PUGS) now it is just replaced with players having to have Ursan or be a monk.  A PvE Only Skill should be fun but in its current form Ursan is just too much.  People have been arguing for and against Ursan, and I think it can have a fun purpose, but what it is now is plainly too much.  So, when thinking about my suggestions I came up with the motto

::: '''Ursan: One for All, All the Same.'''

Ursan to me seems like a good way to get out of a pinch, or to let previously weaker classes (in sense of armor) to be effective melee types, without fundamentally having to go Any/W or Any/D to do it. My suggestion is to make this more of a fun skill to use without having to overdo it, and still provide a good 'lets me you a warrior skill'. 

Its also interesting when you look at the Bear form of the Norn and then the Ursan Blessing the player can access, Ursan Blessing overpowers the Bear Form... seems kinda stupid to me.  We're not Norn, why do we have a stronger appearing skill?

; Suggestion

*Introduce a casting time - allowing AI to have the chance to interrupt.  
**A 2 second cast time is quite viable as Dervish are able to use their Avatar's in the heat of battle without complaining (too much at least :P)

*Increase the recharge time, increase Ursan's recharge to 60-120 seconds
** Once again, similar to that of the Avatars.  

:Functionality Change

*'''Introduce a duration''' 10/60 seconds or 10/90 seconds so Ursan can not be constantly keep up.  Players can still use it but a complete reliance on it is diminished. 
** Once again, Pre-Eternal Aura Dervish used their Avatars just fine with a large recharge time and the durations.

* '''Reduce Primary Attribute''' to 0
** Currently Primary Attributes can provide too much of a bonus to certain professions, removing the Primary Attribute would diminish this effect and put ALL professions on a level field - I suggest this is Ursan knows no boundaries.  Pretty much every profession I've had in a PUG or Guild team have had Ursan on their bar.

* Recognise it as an '''Elite Form'''
** Remove the ability to be able to copy it.  I have seen many people copy Ursan, without having to have to have it on their bar.  I myself have run a Avatar of Dwayna / Ursan setup and it greatly overcame the lack of self healing for Ursan.  (This was a little while ago, it may have been changed)

* Reduce the Armor so even with the armor bonus it will not exceed 80
** Ursan seems to be a great way for non-melee, or even certain melee professions, to be able to go warrior.  Currently Paragon and Warrior have so much of an advantage over all after professions and it seems its just another warrior skill.  Yet, you see so many casters using it now-a-days its not funny.  Making it possible for all professions to be on a level playing field would be great.  This way when looking for a party everyone is equal, you could just grab a member from any profession and it wouldn't really matter.
** Of course, this means Warriors and Paragons get no boost from the armour bonus of Ursan, but insignias and other mods would still stack as per normal.

* Halve the Health boost.  
** A fun thing about Ursan is the health boost, yet I run around with over 400 at the moment, 600 is just a bit too much.

*Decrease attack rate: Everyone attacks as if they're wielding a hammer.
** This may seem strange but bare with me.  Bears are ponderous creatures, powerful.  You take on the aspect of a Bear yet can still strike with the speed of a viper (I'm looking at you Assassins)... doesn't seem to fit.

* Zealous Mods 
** Their degen effect should stack.  Anet didn't need to have it be removed from degen calculations in the first place.  Scythes have the ability to hit multiple targets, its not going to make much different, and if they change it to stacking all people have to do is change weapons out of combat... lets move away from promoting laziness.

This is what I think it should look like:

{{Skill infobox
| name = Ursan Blessing
| campaign = Eye of the North
| attribute = Norn rank
| pve-only = y
| type = Form
| elite = y
| pve-only = y
| energy = 10
| activation = 2
| recharge = 120
| description = [[Elite]] [[Form]]. For {{gr|10|60}} seconds you take on the aspect of the bear. Your [[Primary_attribute | Primary Attribute]] is reduced to 0.  Your [[Energy]] returns to maximum and you have -2 [[Energy degeneration]]. You have +{{gr2|5|10}} [[armor]] and +{{gr2|50|125}} maximum [[Health]]. Your [[Armor]] regardless of profession whilst under the effect of this skill cannot exceed 80.  All [[Enchantments]] upon you are removed. Bear attacks replace your skills. You gain Energy every time you take or deal [[damage]]. This skill ends when your Energy drops to 0. This Skill is [[disabled]] for 120 seconds.}}

{{Skill progression max10
|title track = [[Norn rank]]
|var1 name = [[Duration]]
|var1 at0 = 10
|var1 at10 = 60
|var2 name = + armor
|var2 at0  = 5
|var2 at10 = 10
|var3 name = + maximum Health
|var3 at0  = 50
|var3 at10 = 125
}}

"Ursan, All for One, All the Same"

Skills to come later....  [[User:Cause A Little Mayhem|Cause A Little Mayhem]] 04:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

== Skakid9090's Issue -- 11:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC) ==

lawl nerf dis nigga &mdash; '''[[User:Skakid9090|<font color="black">Skakid</font>]]''' 00:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:mudkip. [[User:76.90.73.121|76.90.73.121]] 23:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

==This skill has ruined PvE for me==
;Issue
:I don't have EotN, so I get excluded from 80-90% of all PvE groups for not having Ursan Blessing. Furthermore, even if I did, they would require me to grind to rank 8 at least. I thought guild wars was skill based not grind based? this game has been drifting away from its foundation since 2 years ago.

== Kali Shin Shivara's Issue -- 01:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC) ==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#Beetlejuice's Discussion|Discussion]]
; Issue
: Nerf! As soon as possible, this skill only animate players to "cheat" 'cause they got the legitimation for it. Simple problem... Every unskilled person is able to reach 25+ ranks for vanquish, guardian etc. through ursan & the rest of EotN consumables
; Suggestion
: set a lifepoint Limit ~500, set armor limit ~90+-10(wars maybe more), warmuptime: 180 sec, EliteForm ends after 45...60 sec. Make a funskill out of it, nothing imbalaced as it is right now :( It's disapointing to see unskilled players with very time (and in the past skilldepending titles) in the game who "farm" their guardian/vanquisher with this skill.

== Klassy's Issues --  ==
; Issue
: It's too easy to use and too easy to maintain.
; Suggestion
: Increase energy degeneration.
: Make each of the Ursan skills cost energy.
: Increase the recharge to 60 or 90 seconds.
; Issue
: If you activate Ursan Force while moving towards a target, it stops you moving which is quite frustrating. This only seems to occur when moving toward an NPC, signpost or party member, not enemies.
; Suggestion
: Fix :D

== [[user:Teh Uber Pwnzer|Teh Uber Pwnzer]]'s Suggestion (2) -- 03:30, 2 May 2008 (UTC) ==
; Issue
: Mindlessly easy, rewards grinding an incredible amount, favors different professions, to easy to win, too hard to die, multiple Ursans synergize together, does not reward player skill in the slightest, etc.
; Suggestion
: Read [[User:Teh_Uber_Pwnzer/Ursan_Blessing]].

== [[user:Dark_Morphon|Dark Morphon]]'s Suggestion -- 11:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC) ==
; Issue
: Do I even need to tell? It singlehandedly turned PvE in a mindless and boring grind and ruined the economy. Do something about it already! 
; Suggestion
: Add adrenal cost to all the ursan skills. That would at least make it somewhat counterable.

== Gem's rant  ==
; Issue
: Nothing has been done to a skill that is ruining the game experience for a huge number of players. Even if some think it's ok, it really is totally irrelevant whether the skill actually is overpowered or not if it causes negative feelings to players the way it is. Quoting Sirlin: ''"Games are not for game designers and their ivory-tower ideals — games are for players."'' If a large part of the playerbase doesn't like something, it's the right thing to fix the problem even if you don't think of it as a problem at all.
; Suggestion
: A lot of things go really. Remove the skill, limit it's use to normal mode only, nerf the damage, add an adrenaline cost, lengthen the recharge, make it blockable / evadable / affectable by armor, etc. The exact method isn't relevant, taking some action is.

== [[User:118.92.111.241|118.92.111.241]]'s Issue ==
[[ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/PvE/Ursan Blessing|118.92.111.241's Issue]]
; Issue
Ursan in its current form is unbalanced in terms of a player using this skill and overpowering in groups where there are multiple Ursan users.  Groups heavy with Ursan users can easily breeze further most areas of the game regardless of profession.  A change is needed although a complete killing of this skill is not.
; Suggestion

=== Ursan Blessing Suggestion ===
{{Skill infobox
| name = Ursan Blessing
| campaign = Eye of the North
| attribute = Norn rank
| elite = yes
| type = Form
| energy = 10
| activation = 2
| pve-only = y
| recharge = 60
| description = [[Elite Skill]]. For {{gr|60|120}} seconds, you take on the aspect of the bear. Your armor is set to {{gr|80|90}} and your health is set to {{gr|400|500}}. Bear attacks replace your skills. You gain Energy every time you take or deal damage. This skill ends when your Energy drops to 0.}}

Similar to a suggestion made up the page but with an activation time and a duration, still at low levels making it functional for 60 seconds as a base time.  
Armor isn't really seen as much of a general issue for Ursan. Non Warrior and Paragon classes are at a bit of a disadvantage but making all professions have similar armor level - before buffs - puts the players on more of a level base.  A common linking factor for Ursan is that its available to all but isn't rooted in one profession so no profession should really have much of an advantage over the others - its a title track skill after all so it really doesn't need to take profession into consideration and really doesn't need to follow the mechanics of profession so far.  Primary attribute could be set to 0 will using it but may be too much.
I have not removed the end condition so it still drives the player to more forward.

=== Ursan Strike ===

{{Skill infobox
| name = Ursan Strike
| campaign = Eye of the North
| attribute = Norn rank
| type = Skill
| adrenaline = 4
| recharge = 3
| pve-only = y
| description = [[Skill]]. You deal {{gr|40|75}} [[physical damage]] to target touched foe twice.}}

An adrenaline cost to slow the use of the skill without decreasing its effectiveness too far.  I choose adrenaline since energy is already factored into Ursan Blessing itself, and seems to go along with the nature of what Ursan does - be a warrior.
I would suggest a change in damage type to bring the skill in line and to decrease the devastating effect multiple Ursans can have without doing too much damage to parties only using one or two.  Changing it to [[physical damage]] instead of armor ignoring would do this without greatly decreasing the power of a group of Ursan working together and bring more commonality with the damage the player can actually do whilst in Ursan ,referring to the original Ursan Rage as its damage type is physical and just weapon based damage.

I would have liked to have turned this into an attack skill but a damage change might be enough.  The damage is more of a problem than counters not working on it, and an adrenaline cost may require some to wait to use this skill after its recharges.  Considering to the suggestion I do recognise that scythes can hit multiple targets at once, so adrenaline might not be too do much of an issue for Dervish but I don't know if there is a way to change it that when in Ursan it only hits 1 target with a scythe.

One of the only draw backs of adrenaline is that casters - who use wands and staffs - don't get adrenaline as far as I know so this might have to be taken into consideration if adrenaline is added.  Maybe sharing the information between the processes that recognise when a caster (who is using Ursan_ is hitting with wand/staff and mirror that as adrenaline.  *shrugs*  Not a programmer.

=== Ursan Rage===

{{Skill infobox
| name = Ursan Rage
| campaign = Eye of the North
| attribute = Norn rank
| type = Skill
| activation = 1
| recharge = 10
| pve-only = y
| description = [[Skill]]. You deal {{gr2|60|135}} [[physical damage]] to target foe. Target foe is also [[Knock down|knocked down]] for 2 seconds.}}

This skill isn't actually that much different than Strike and I don't feel that Ursan really needs the multiple target version to still remain effective.  I have not added an adrenline cost to my suggestion because it has a large recharge time and it would only target one foe so groups of Ursans can still use this skill but targeting is encourage where groups of foes are concerned to allow surpression of the enemy but discourages blind aoe chaining when entire groups are concerned.


=== Ursan Roar ===

{{Skill infobox
| name = Ursan Roar
| campaign = Eye of the North
| attribute = Norn rank
| type = Shout
| recharge = 15
| pve-only = y
| description = [[Shout]]. '''EITHER''' For {{gr2|2|5}} seconds, {{gr2|1|3}} enemies within [[Area of Effect#Earshot|earshot]] are [[Weakness|Weakened]] '''OR''' All allies deal +{{gr2|5|15}} damage per attack.}}

I'm in two minds over Ursan Roar, its a duel functional skill, over the ally and the foe, so I would either suggest it only effect ally or only affect foe.  Weakness is powerful but increased damage is quite nice as well, I think Arenanet just needs to be pick one effect though, either a possible weakness to a number of enemies or a Shout Buff for the allies.  I put a number into enemies effected to try and decrease - even just slightly, the chance a group of Ursans being able to weaken an entire group of AI.  Even if the foe effect limit isn't liked I still think either one or the other effect, not both.

=== Ursan Force ===
{{Skill infobox
| name = Ursan Force
| campaign = Eye of the North
| attribute = Norn rank
| type = Skill
| recharge = 12
| pve-only = y
| description = [[Skill]]. For {{gr2|8|14}} seconds, you move {{gr2|20|33}}% faster and can break wooden barricades.  }} 

Since a duration is added to Ursan I don't see much point in this skill changing very much, although I personally wouldn't mind seeing some kind of knockdown effect some into it since inside of the Norn mission you get to break through wooden barricades, it might be nice to see you break through some foes :), but I haven't added it as this skill really doesn't need to be changed too heavily.


Anyway, its later and I hope this stuff makes sense.  :) [[User:118.92.111.241|118.92.111.241]] 01:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

== 92.235.8.13 Issues ==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#92.235.8.13's Discussion|Discussion]]
; Issue
: One Skill that totally dominates the pve meta, that is the very definition of unbalanced.
; Suggestion
: For starters, add the clause "Can only be used in Norn areas", just like the Heart of the Norn Title buff.

== Kite's Issue 01:04, 25 May 2008 (UTC) ==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#Kite's Discussion|Discussion]]
; Issue
: It's boring. Seriously. It may be overpowered as well, but it's just dang '''''BORING'''''. 
; Suggestion
: Make the Ursan blessing's uber-powers dependent upon the other Norn blessings. Not entirely, of course; I think the best implementation of this would be to make '''Ursan Strike''' into this: ''"Skill. You deal 40...75 damage to target touched foe. If an ally within earshot is using Raven Blessing, this skill strikes twice."'' and '''Ursan Rage''' like this: ''"Skill. You deal 60...135 physical damage to target foe. Struck foe is also knocked down for 2 seconds. If an ally within earshot is using Volfen Blessing, this skill strikes all adjacent foes."'' This would help Ursan groups to be more interesting and have more variety, at the very least.
: (Also, have similar requirements for the other blessings' skills, to keep them in line with Ursan; not that there's a whole lot of chance of them overpowering Ursan any time soon.)

==Abyssos' Issue==
; Issue
: Same as above ones. Only one skill is dominating the high-end PvE, and with Armor of Salvation, Essence of Celerity and Grail of Might it is technically unstoppable. Ursan groups die very rarely, because of high armor, health and damage output. Energy degeneration is too low, since players gain 2 energy with an attack with Zealous weapon mod and 1 when they are hit, so this can be maintained a very long time.
; Suggestion
: Form skill, disabled for 90...60 seconds when ends, 15 Energy cost, 2 second activation. Duration 90...120 seconds, also ends when energy reaches 0. Energy degeneration is set to -3, Zealous weapon mod stacks with this. Energy returns to maximum. HP is set to 480...580, Armor to 70...80, Energy to 40 and all atrributes to 0. Ursan Strike and Ursan Rage are regarded as Melee Attack skills, Ursan Roar as Shout and Ursan Force as Stance. Skills have energy/adrenaline costs. Ursan Strike: Deal +40...75 damage to target foe. Ursan Rage: Deal +50...100 damage to target foe. If this attack hits, target is also knocked down for 2 seconds. Ursan Roar: For 5...10 seconds, all allies within earshot deal +5...15 damage with their skills and attacks. Ursan Force: For 3...13 seconds, you move 10...20% faster and can break through wooden barricades. Optional with these changes: Make Ursan Blessing ignore the effects of Grail, Armor and Essence, and/or make Enraged and Fingers of Chaos remove it.

== [[User:Shai Meliamne|Shai Meliamne]]'s Issue - 15 June, 2008 ==
; Issue
: Ursan Blessing is currently the only way ppl play as it is quicker than a skilled balanced group and much much easier to play. Although I like the point that this way it is possible to play with ppl, other than guildies or perhaps skilled ppl you once met, in any area of the game. However, it is faster and other - possibly more fun - builds can not be used. Therefore this skill has to be nerfed or changed to at least reduce it's killing speed and possibly it's ability to survive.
: In it's current state it just ruins PvE for me
; Suggestions
:1. Make the blessing itself give only +10 armor and +100 health max to more accurately match the power of the other blessings, while decreasing the survivability with this skill. It will still be usable, but not as easy
:2. [[Ursan Strike]] is the most powerfull of all the blessing's attacks, especially in area's where the Lightbringer title works. I'd suggest to lower the damage to 40..60 or make it affected by armor to decrease the power of ursans
:3. [[Ursan Rage]] is a very powerfull AoE KD, something like [[Whirlwind]] without it's energy cost and without the need to have the opponent attacking. Multiple ursans using this correctly ("skillfully") will result in a KD chain of all opponents while also dealing a lot of damage. Making this target only would make ursan groups less powerfull while also decreasing it's survivability.
:4. imo [[Ursan Roar]] is the most overpowered skill of the ursans arsenal. It weakens all opponents within earshot, reducing their damage by up to 66%. It can be chained and will thus increase overall survivability. Make this in the area like [[Raven Shriek]]. The +damage from this skill isn't much of a problem, but coupled with a MM, this can be devastating, but at least adding an MM in an ursan group will create one more squishy
I'd suggest some or all of the above to nerf ursanway while still giving people the ability to deal some nice close combat damage (and possibly tank) as a caster in PUG's

== [[User:Y0 ich halt|Y0 ich halt]]'s issue - 21:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC) ==
'''Issue'''
:Has been addressed often enough.
'''Suggestions'''
:Remove Energy gain upon hit.

:'''[[Ursan Strike]]'''
::Change to: "''Touch Skill. Deals '''30...60 damage''', twice.''" ('''5''' {{recharge}})


:The remove energy gain upon hit will totally disable it. I like the idea for ursan strike though. [[User:Ninjas In The Sky|'''<font color="#000999">Ninjas In The Sky</font>''']] 22:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
::why? zealous weaps, crit strikes, energy through shouts etc. it's still no real problem to keep your energy, or at least noob warriors won't be able to abuse it as much. - [[User:Yo|<tt>Y0_<span style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:kartika;font-size:130%">ich_halt</span></tt>]] [[Image:User Y0_ich_halt sig.jpg|18px]] 14:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[User:MikuChan|MikuChan]]'s issue - 11:39, 25 June 2008 (EST) ==
'''Issue'''
:Players Love this skill and it is one of the best things Arenanet could have done to make my warrior useful again. Far too much love has been lost to the Warrior class and this skill not only lets us dust off our warriors but also gives people without tanking abilities to be able to join any group they want. For far too long there have been people left out of groups because their class isn't "good enough" to go on a mission. Example: Urgoz's Warren. Have you ever seen groups use warriors, assassins or dervishes before Ursan? No.
'''Suggestion'''
:Leave this skill alone and stop complaining because you don't have EotN and buy it. Stop complaining that the Ursans are taking all your drops because they can run DoA HM. Get it yourself and do it. You got Searing Flames and Healer's Boon because everyone else required you to have it, so why is this any different? Leave it alone, grow up and deal with it.

::We have EotN. This is ruining the economy. That's the problem. Do a bit of research before running around saying "yay I can use my warrior again!" when warriors were never useless. Ever. -- [[User:Armond|Armond Warblade]][[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 20:51, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

:::How is this ruining the economy? It's a honest question, so before you GOENGINE GOREDENGINE GORED explain what shattering effect this has had. Ecto prices are within 10-12% variance from 1 year ago, feathers are the biggest mover I've seen, but that's probably a spike in demand for [[Warrior Silver Eagle armor|Silver Eagle Armor]]. Black dye has gone up in price in the last 3 months, and white aswell. 
:::I'm not picking a side here, I'd just like to know where people having fun on their own, instead of with PuGs which are notoriously bad, is bad for the game? [[User:Ghosst|<span style="color:blue"><strong><I>Ghosst</I></strong></span>]] [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  • <small>[[User talk:Ghosst|<span style="color:Blue">Talk</span>]]</small> • 05:45, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
::::"''Ecto prices are within 10-12% variance from 1 year ago''" Uhh....3.5k down from 5k is not 10-12%. That isn't fully Ursan though, that's another topic. An aspect of economy ursan (and EotN to a lesser extent) did ruin was items on the player-made economy. (Voltaic Spears, DoA items, etc.) 
::::And in response to your other question, grinding isn't fun. Nor was it meant to be the ''core'' of Guild Wars. The most unfun aspect of this (and any other game) has been taken and glorified into the "standard." This standard has, in turn, created a stark sense of elitism: It's either you spend the time to grind out the title(s) or you are left in the dust. Prior to Ursan, even though you were expected to have certain skills and not necessarily ground titles (possible exception: DoA), the difference between Ursan and the pre-made builds is that there was usually more risk involved. If you are new or unfamiliar with the bar, chances are you would suck. However you would slowly start to learn from your errors, knowing when you should use a certain skill, where you should locate yourself, etc. Case in point, Ursan is a pick-up-and-go skill without the drawbacks. That is why it has seen so much use, and, in turn, that is why the player-made economy has been impacted.
::::On a side note, the rise of Black and White Dye Prices doesn't necessarily mean good. Infact, it's a sure sign that people are starting to get '''too much money'''. Let's do a quick logic exercise.

::::'''Question: Why are the dye prices going up?'''
::::*Answer: because more consumers are starting to buy. There is a higher-demand, but the income of dye remains virtually the same (thankfully). Higher demand with stagnant supply means higher costs.
::::'''Question: Why are there more consumers buying the dyes?'''
::::*Answer: Because, previously, a noticeably lesser amount of consumers (than today) were the only ones willing to buy the dye due to fears of money-spent versus aesthetics. However, this new wave of consumers have more money.
::::'''Question: Why do these consumers have more money?'''
::::*Answer: Simple, it's easier to get money than previously.--<small>[[User:Ezekial Riddle|'''Ezekial''']] [[User talk:Ezekial Riddle|'''Riddle''']]</small> 06:59, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Higher Feather prices are from people buying [[Essence of Celerity]].[[User:Teh Uber Pwnzer|<font color="Black">''' &mdash; Teh Uber Pwnzer'''</font>]] 07:23, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

:::::Ahh, I wasn't sure about the feathers, I haven't really gone too far into EotN yet. The armor was a guess as beyond that I hadn't seen too much use for them other than for my necro max armor.

:::::As far the other points brought by Ezekial, the 10-12% I quoted was from watching Ectos go from about 5000 (to buy) to 4500, which isn't much of change. You may be referring to selling them to other players, which is seperate. I rarely buy anything from a player that I can't go buy from a vendor myself. I do however recall white dye at one point being 37p per bottle but I can't recall where I saw a screenie of that (it was years ago). I understand how and why the prices move up and down, but I just don't see that they are wildly out of place.
 
:::::I also don't see that titles are that terribly important. While I am interested in maxing KoaBD if I see someone displaying, for example, Legendary Cartographer, I don't get upset, I just think, "wow, that must have been a lot of work". In fact, I was chatting with a player who just received Legendary Survivor two days ago and I was complementing him on the work involved. It had nothing to do with the skills he equipped either, it was just respect for having done the work. Keeping that in mind, that does not mean to me that your displaying Sunspear Commander means you are a bad player or not worth answering a question to. Heck, you could very well be on a new or unused character and have far more experience than most people out there. 

:::::Finally, the rare items in NF are nice, but to be honest, it's a shield, or a spear, or a sword. I grabbed mine from the BMP and I'm quite happy with them, although I may switch to a Mursaat shield soon. It doesn't force anyone to go work at the BMP though, that's a personal choice. I picked the [[Tribal Shield (effigy)]] for my paragon over my Shield of the Forgotten because it's the look I wanted. People can party with me regardless of their choice in weapons. 
:::::[[User:Ghosst|<span style="color:blue"><strong><I>Ghosst</I></strong></span>]] [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  • <small>[[User talk:Ghosst|<span style="color:Blue">Talk</span>]]</small> • 13:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::People like you, Ghosst, are awesome. If there were more of you in the game, perhaps I could be happier. Unfortunately, there aren't very many people like you, and as such I have to make my arguement based on the majority.
::::::The whole Ecto debate is, in essence, meaningless due to constant variation. I will say this: a year ago, they were going for anywhere between 4.6k to 5k. Recently (within a few weeks ago) I've seen prices around 3.5k. Something has happened within that time frame, and most notable things are the SF buff and Ursan. I won't make this page into an Ecto economy/SF/Ursan debate at once, so let's drop the Ecto debate. If you want, you can have the last say, I won't care.
::::::Titles: It's annoying to be kicked from a group because your "Ursan Rank" -- as it is sadly called -- isn't high enough. Titles like Legendary Cartographer and KoaBD don't have any effect on how you play, but the EotN faction titles do. PvE'ers like "pure power", and as such whoever has the higher title wins. That is the sense of elitism I was talking about.
::::::And, lastly, your point about aesthetics is why I think you're a cool person. You are okay without the most expesnive items, but, as I said earlier, the majority likes getting the most expensive equipment. To them, it's prestige. That is why two items with the same exact stats can have a very dramatic difference in pricing. However, to get back to my original point the last post is that the items in the player made economy have taken a dramatic hit. It's not good for any economy to have such a decrease in prices.
::::::We should continue this chat in the talk-page so this page doesn't get so cluttered --<small>[[User:Ezekial Riddle|'''Ezekial''']] [[User talk:Ezekial Riddle|'''Riddle''']]</small> 05:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== Spawn Legacy's Issue -- 06:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC) ==
[[User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/PvE/Ursan Blessing#Spawnlegacy's Discussion|Discussion]]

^ ''In response to the only Ursan advocate on this page: Suggesting that those who rely on PvXwiki and maintain elitist attitudes should take precedence is a blatant disregard for Arenanet's core foundation of balance and creativity. However far they've strayed.''

;Issue
:The greedy ploy of releasing the godmode skill with the final title before Guild Wars 2... Ingenious
;Suggestion
:Read your own page entitled 'Skills,' ANET. Pay close attention to the words 'Build' and 'Attributes.' Notice how you have embellished the process of creation with the word heroic and draw upon its similarities with painting using a fine brush. That's how this game began. Creativity is what the title stood for. Why did it have to stoop so low? 
:I needn't mention I don't use this skill out of principle. The people having what your update purveyor calls 'fun', ANET, are the people making money.
::: Delete the damn skill already, get it out of the other campaigns, read the discussion on the skill page, act on the concerns of the majority for the love of the game. There are so many easy fixes with little more consequence than a few pissed Gods Walking Among Mortals selling gold online. For Christ's sake, wake up and take us seriously.

== 12.191.136.2's issue --  01:45, 11 July 2008 (UTC) ==
Leave the skill as is!  It has enabled my friends and I to access content we could never access before.  I don't care if it is overpowered, it is fun.  Isn't that what the game should be about? [[Special:Contributions/12.191.136.2|12.191.136.2]] 01:46, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Could easily be fun in a less prestige/economy/community destroying fashion. [[User:Spawnlegacy|Spawnlegacy]] 08:14, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Let me translate: '' Leave the skill as it is! It lets ME and MY FRIENDS access hard to get content that we could not before (gee, i wonder why? bad players? and now they can access it easily) I don't care if it's overpowerd, (okaay..) it is fun. (Okay. you can complete all the hardmore areas in the game using a guitar hero controller with ursan. this means that you do this basically: press V and then space to follow teammates. press C and then space to attack enemies then 123 buttons to kill all.
(This is serious. you can actually do it.)
How the fuck is pressing V and C + space every once in a while fun?
<br>
Also. you are basically saying ''fuck the people who cant get ursan. fuck everyone without eye of the north. me and my friends can now easily complete everything. isnt that what the game is supposed to be like? fun for me?''
If you disagree on this point read all the posts before it. obviously it is NOT fun. even though it is for YOU that does not mean it is fun for everyone else. fail.[[User:Oni|<b><font color="Purple">Oni</font></b>]] [[Image:User Oni sig.png|19px|User talk:Oni]] 22:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
:what about the people who doesn't have NF and EOTN who cant get their hands on HERO's, where's your pity on them?--[[User:Ridz16|Ridz16]] 19:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
::Go to the god damn ursan talk page, IP dude, and see what I wrote there. [[User:Ninjas In The Sky|'''<font color="#000999">Ninjas In The Sky</font>''']] 21:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Adding to the shitstorm ==
Because everyone else is.  You know, I first seriously considered blanking the page and putting up this little gem: <pre> {{SmoothBlinkies|LOL IMBA}}
<font style="background: black; font-weight: bold; font-size: 20pt; color: red; top: 0px; left: 0px; position: fixed; z-index: 4; float: left;">FUCK ANET
<br/><br/>FUCK BALANCE<br/><br/>NO RULES!<br/><br/><br/>MOAR GRIND!<br/><br/><br/> FUCK IZZY <br/><br/>NERF THIS SHIT<br/><br/><br/>etc.<br/>etc.
<br/>etc.<br/><br/><br/><br/><br/><br/>URSAN SUCKS<br/><br/><br/>etc.<br/><br/>etc.<i>etc.<br/><br/><br/>NE</i>RF<br/><br />
PLZ<br/>etc<br/>etc<br/><br/><br/>URSANS=FAGS<br/><br/>etc<br/><br/><br/>etc<br/><br/>... 
alright, I'm too lazy to type the rest of the code out when it's not gonna do anything, but you get the point.</pre>

Then I remembered how well [[stick in the mud|people]] generally [[OMG DRAMA|react]] to [[vandalism|my humor]].  So I'm just here to add my name to the list of those who wish to see this skill removed.  I'm too lazy to deal with a perma-ban, but if some anonymous user wanted to add that code in my honor, I'd be touched.  --[[User:Jette|Jette]] 13:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Nerfing Suggestion ==

Since Arenanet has already decided to alter this skill, I wanted to request some comments as to whether this would be an acceptable alternative (it makes little difference as Anet has a plan already, it is merely curiosity at this point. 

 Elite Form. For 10...58...60 seconds, you take on the aspect of the bear.
 You have +10...20 armor and +100...200 maximum Health. All Enchantments upon you are removed.
 Bear attacks replace your skills. This Skill is disabled for 120 seconds.

Note that the energy degen and engery gain are removed, the recharge is also doubled.

[[User:Ghosst|<span style="color:blue"><strong><I>Ghosst</I></strong></span>]] [[Image:User_Ghosst_Ghosst_Sig.jpg|19px|I Make Dead People]]  • <small>[[User talk:Ghosst|<span style="color:Blue">Talk</span>]]</small> • 05:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

== Suggestion ==
I play ursan rarely. Smetimes I use it for harder areas, or hard mode areas. My guild does some DoA, FoW runs on hm, and of course, we usually use ursan. I have nothing against this skill, but it is overpowered. The skill is not necessarily the problem, since nerf after nerf of this skill would ruin it for more than just farmers, and the occasional player who uses it. I suggest that the skill is only changed to lower drop rates by X amount for 1 ursan, which increases for more ursan players. This would still allow for elite area runs to be completed, but if u nerf those chests, so if the party has an ursan, he/she will not recieve as many drops, and have a lower chance of getting higher quality drops. This could effectively reduce the economic impact of ursan, without necessarily killing the skill for regular use.--Murderer Bomb(Doesnt have an account on this wiki)--[[Special:Contributions/172.130.67.16|172.130.67.16]] 02:50, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== Add a Limit ==
Sure Ursan is Powerful and I do agree that its lame going 6 ursan and 2 monks + cons, it doesnt require any real skill and is unfair to player who don't got all the time in the world to max the skill or who has'nt got Gwen. I don't think anet should nef the skill in it self I think they should put a limit on how many ursans are to be allowed in a party instead. Puting a limit will allow players that dont own Gwen to be a part of HM groups instead of being left in the dark as they are now. Id suggest a limit of 2 blessing per party and max one of each type. A limit is also good since it will allow ppl to still enjoy to the feeling to being all powerful with a singel skill, some ppl enjoy that. This way we'll hopefully see a wider variety of builds being used and while still letting those who just brought gwen for this skill have a chance to enjoy it in its full glory.--[[Special:Contributions/213.100.146.85|213.100.146.85]] 15:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

== Let Players Play Their Own Way ==
It's PvE. You don't compete with other people. It doesn't matter how I might choose to play on my own in PvE, it has nothing to do with anyone else. Ursan took harder areas of the game the majority of players were unable to access and made them available to the rest of the community. If you don't like Ursan you don't have to take it, if others want to run it then let them do it. [[Image:User Druid Sig.png|19px]][[User:Druid|<font color="green">Druid</font>]] 11:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:This point has been debated over and over. Let me run the basics by you:
:#Titles are made insignificant. If you've earned a title without using Ursan, no one has any way of knowing, and everyone assumes you went the easy way for it.
:#The "elite" areas are overrun by Ursan groups. They're not, well, hard, as an elite area should be.
:#The economy went crash due to the fact that everyone could access every part of the content, and thus could get the drops. Huge influx of supply with no increase in demand.
:#All of PvE is now being dominated by a single skill on one's bar. Well, hell, why do we need the other seven skill slots anymore? To hold Ursan Strike and whatnot, of course...
:#GW2 is directly affected by this skill. Not only are people leaving the game now, costing ANet potential GW2 customers, but however the Hall of Monuments is handled, GW2 will be adversely affected. In the first scenario, the HoM will confer no bonus at all to GW2 (despite everything ANet's said; this is just for the sake of argument). People will whine and bitch that they put all sorts of effort into GW1 (even if all they did was roll Ursan through hard mode everything with a guitar hero controller) for no reward. Also, those people who actually are skilled and earned their monuments legitimately lose out. (This is the ultimate failure of the HoM: there's no distinction of the level of skill used to earn your accomplishments. Idiots that smack their keyboard with their face earn the same rewards as people with actual skill.) In the second scenario, there are some sort of rewards for your accomplishments in the HoM. In this case, every new player is left far behind by the old crowd, no matter how minor those rewards might be, because there's so damn many people with full (or near-full) halls.
:-- [[User:Armond|Armond Warblade]][[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 13:50, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::The whole point is those that have the titles and money must stop, anyone else from aquiring the same titles and items.  All of the against Ursan arguments, hide behind the same damn bullshit of ruined economy and no skill.
:::Uh, the point about titles and items is that ''elite'' items and ''elite'' titles should be reserved for the ''elite''. The moment ANet changes the titles of DoA, Urgoz, the Deep, etc from "elite mission" to "mission", I'll stop complaining about tormented things being too common, etc.
:::As for ruined economy and no skill, why is a ruined economy anything but a bad thing? Why is requiring skill to complete the hardest areas of the game anything but a good thing in a game that values skill over time?
:::-- [[User:Armond|Armond Warblade]][[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 18:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

'''Better solution:''' 2 pve servers & 1 pvp server, 1 for ursan lovers and 1 for ursan haters and then... when everybody is bored they can both join up in pvp.  All this argument leads to one thing and one thing only and that is people complain they get the hard stuff the hard way whereas some people get their stuff the easy way. FIX IT let the hardcore people stay in one pve server then the easy people stay in one pve server!! problem solve. Then there wont be anymore confusion and blaming and what not about economy etc etc etc.--[[User:Ridz16|Ridz16]] 19:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Reaper J's Issue -- 20:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC) ==
;Issue
:The previous suggestions are horrible. Every one of them. Yes, Ursan Blessing needs a nerf, because it is out of line. '''''However,''''' it does not need to be comepletely redesigned, ''or'' banned from (Insert elite area here), ''or'' deleted (Because [[Blood Washes Blood|this]] would have to be deleted as well), or some other way, shape, or form of altering the game for one skill. Start treating it like a '''skill''', and not a threat to humanity (or in this case, User:X's elitism). '''It needs to be brought in line with the other two blessings.''' Therefore, my suggestion is, give it a minor nerf of damage, but more importantly, '''BUFF THE OTHER TWO BLESSINGS, RAVEN AND VOLFEN.''' That way, it is still a fairly working skill without eliminating its possibilities. Honestly, just because you've traced the problem to the skill it does not make your information qualify to make a good skill nerf. "URSAN = EASY. NO URSAN = NO EASY!" Neanderthal much? I rest my case.

;General Suggestion
*'''[[Ursan Strike]]'''
Reduce damage to 40..70, change to blunt damage. Same general effectiveness, toned down to an adequate level.
*'''[[Ursan Rage]]'''
Reduce damage to 60...90. Make THAT armor ignoring

For full description, please read  [http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/User:Satish#What_I_currently_have_to_say this]. And on a final note, '''put some thought into these suggestions!''' 'Cause what I've read here...
:[[User:Reaper J|<font color="DodgerBlue">'''Reaper'''</font>]] [[User talk:Reaper J|<font color="DodgerBlue">'''J'''</font>]][[Image:User Reaper J sig 1.jpg|19px]]

::Problem is, the other blessings are overpowered too. People are just too dumb to realize it, and them being completely outshadowed by Ursan doesn't help. -- [[User:Armond|Armond Warblade]][[Image:User Armond sig image.png]] 20:43, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:: Yeah, I was thinking about that. And since some people think this one is so bad, Anet is under pressure and hope is being lost for GW2. I still think parts of it will be better than the original, but it will still have that "aura" about it from the first one. [[User:Reaper J|<font color="DodgerBlue">'''Reaper'''</font>]] [[User talk:Reaper J|<font color="DodgerBlue">'''J'''</font>]][[Image:User Reaper J sig 1.jpg|19px]] 14:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)